Controversial climate balance of e-cars: the air burns in the scene of scene

Electric gate, round two

Controversial climate balance of e-cars: the air burns in the scene of scene

Controversial climate balance of e-cars: the air burns in the scene of scene-controversial
pixabay E-Mission instead of emission-KIT professor explains: How environmentally friendly are electric cars really?

  • Site author Carl Christian Jancke

  • Site editor Sebastian Viehmann

Electric gate, round two: After their criticism of the calculation method of electric car emissions, scientists receive a lot of encouragement, but also a lot of headwind. Site summarizes the status of the discussion.

The scientific digression of electromobility is rarely scientific. In Germany in particular, it is a highly political topic. This was felt Thomas Koch from the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology. He had tried to lead a mathematical proof that the EU had simply offset its hypothesis in a scientific magazine when calculating future CO2 emissions by about 100%, in order to have it checked as part of the “Peer Review” and then found 170 scientists worldwide who shared his opinion. Representative of the foundation "Icestec"-Group, which calls for more open-air technology in the traffic turnaround, then wrote the leading heads to an open letter to the EU Commission .The criticism came promptly – and mostly aimed at the fact that Koch, as one of the best -known experts in combustion engines. Apart from the fact that this accusation, if one thinks in such argumentary patterns, would also apply to the electric industry, the discussion about the topic quickly drifted into the usual warehouse thinking "Per e-mobility" and "Contra e-mobility" away. With a precise view, it shows how deep the problem actually goes to which the scientists have pointed out the EU Commission.

Electric car: clean in France, less in Germany

Koch and his colleagues selected the holy cow of the German traffic turnaround to illustrate their points – the electric car ID3 of the Semi -State Volkswagen Group. The required current emittien more than twice as much CO2 as assumed by the EU Commission. The EU error is based on a calculation error, according to the scientists.

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It is not new that the emissions of e -mobility are well calculated – it is already evident in the fact, that car manufacturers are allowed to account for their electricity with 0 grams in the CO2 fleet compensation. The journal recently showed that this is not true in front and back "Auto Motor & Sport" Due to a clear comparison: While in France, thanks to nuclear power in France, the balance in Germany is actually much worse if you take into account the only small contribution of renewable energies to the electricity mix depending on the weather conditions, depending on the weather conditions.

"Autopapst" DudenhOffer does not want to open technology

Among other things, the scientists around Thomas Koch suffered the trouble of Germany’s most famous auto experts, the emeritus professor Ferdinand DudenhOffer. He now operates a combination of order research, congress event agency and organizes congresses around the electromobility from Braunschweig to China. A DudenhOffers study co-financed by the “European Climate Foundation” came to the conclusion that e-mobility would hardly be lost through jobs. There are also various forecasts for this field that differ greatly from each other. So other publications assume that between 200.000 and 400.000 jobs of the transformation to electromobility fall victim to.

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DudenhOffer did not give good hair at the IASTEC opinion. If he already hears the word “openness to technology”, then he encourages that you can hold the rod for the combustion engine for longer. Other reviews came even more shrill and unacceptable. Under the title “Caution Fake News”, the claims "Economic week", Koch’s calculation methods are wrong and unrealistic, the “International Association of Sustainable Drivetrain and Vehicle Technology Research” does not exist, its foundation is only planned by Koch and the letter is only signed by 6 scientists.

"Electric gate"? Numerous supporters for criticism of the emission calculation

Now the correctness of a scientific hypothesis is neither dependent on an entry in the register of association nor on the number of signatories of an open letter. Koch could have made it clearer that the current discussion forces him to hurry. The EU wants to decide various guidelines and the decision of the Euro 7 standard for combustion engines is imminent.

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Cattle man Marking of an electric car charging station on a motorway rest area

However, the presentation that the critics of the CO2 calculation consist of only six people who quasi others tension in front of the carts cannot be kept. Site is not only the open letter from the scientists to the EU Commission, but also after a first demand over 60 emails from future IASTEC members and supporters of Koch, who confirm the correctness of the hypotheses. These include scientists, researchers and drive experts from Germany, Brazil, Canada, South Korea, China, England, France, Poland, Spain, Czech Republic and Greece. You also confirm that you want to participate in the founding of the IASTEC. "We are honored to stand behind the paper together with the 170+ representatives from the automotive drive field," writes Seongsoo Kim from the Korean Silla University, for example. The electricity mix in South Korea is comparable to that in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and also does not allow a complete climate -neutral electromomobility. Without refuels (this is the technical term for biological and synthetic fuels), climate neutrality cannot be achieved.

"Climate neutrality cannot be achieved without synthetic fuels"

In addition to numerous supporters, there is also a lot of criticism, which is technically more well -founded than the Ferdinand DudenhOffers. The Science Media Center Germany (SMCG), a non -profit GmbH with an annual budget of 1.7 million euros, which the "Networking of science and press" prescribed, has taken the trouble to put together the cook-critical statements.

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In addition to the KlausSchira Foundation of a late SAP founder, the Federal Ministry of Education and Research, the German Center for Aerospace or the German Academy of Natural Researchers Leopoldina and various universities include. Managing Director Volker Stollorz says about the selection of the relevant scientists: “We are generally addressing researchers about studies, publications, publications and legislators in which the respective topic falls in the domain -specific department. These are particularly able to assess the current state of research and assess theses that fall into their discipline. The respective positions of the scientists on certain research questions are neither the decisive selection criterion for the acquisition nor in individual inquiries. The researchers asked is free to answer our questions. In the case of the publication of Prof. Thomas Koch in connection with the question of which CO2 emissions can be assigned which consumers, these were scientists who have been creating energy system analyzes for many years and argue at the current state of scientific research.""

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Imago Images / Jurgen Ritter Electric car VS combustion engine: It is worth switching to electric cars?

"Arguments for both positions"

Professor Martin Wietschel from the Fraunhofer Institute for System and Innovation Research wrote in a contribution for the Science Media Center, Koch asked the question of whether the CO2 emissions of the Strom mix should be set for the electricity used by electric cars or the CO2 Excuse of the Grenzstrommix, i.e. additional electricity necessary. There are "arguments for both positions". However, the use of average emissions is scientific standard. Because border stream emissions could not be clearly assigned. In addition, electric cars could serve as a flexible memory for excess wind and solar energy in the future.

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Patrick Jochem from the German Aerospace Center wrote: "The article takes up a valid point", but falls short in one place. Because electric cars could accelerate the energy transition in electricity generation and lead to negative marginal emissions, "especially if you integrate the e-cars into the energy system as a mobile memory". The fact is: There are actually plans for such applications – however, it remains open whether and when they are realized.

When experts are selected unilaterally

However, supporters of the Koch hypothesis and their arguments do not have their say, although at least two emails to the SMCG advocate the open letter. Prof. Dr. Bauer from the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology has in an email from 22. June explicitly declared the SMCG that he supports the statements of Koch and his co-author BOhlke. And the former President of ETH Zurich is not quoted either. Stollorz claims that statements are sent without being asked were not taken into account. A strange approach – you can not only choose scientists who confirm the suspected or desired hypothesis. There is a little suspicion that a association – among other things funded by the Federal Government – does not necessarily want critics of the government line. Because Germany contributes the one-sided promotion of e-mobility as one of the driving forces within the EU.But the discussion about the emission calculation of electric cars was brought to a new level with the letter from the scientists. "That is exactly what we wanted to achieve", Mitinitiator Koch says to site.

"Funding is heated by false policy in SUV"

The professors also have supporters outside the IASTEC network. Some examples:

  • Prof. Dipl. Ing Manfred Plechhaty from the Ulm University of Applied Sciences states: “The promotion of electric vehicles unfortunately runs in the wrong direction. In principle, a good drive, for short -haul and small vehicles, is burned by false politics in SUVs and range competitions. The larger the range, the worse the CO2 balance. This contradicts the goals and is still promoted and sold as a great innovation. The stupid thing is once again the one who suffers the most from global warming.""
  • Prof. Dr. Lino Guzella, President A.D. The ETH Zurich, wrote to the editorial team of the Science Media Center Germany: “I explain to my students the concept of the border stream, which is relevant in this context, with the following thoughts experiment. Question: If you need an additional kWh of electrical energy, which power plant will feed this amount of energy into the network? Answer: That we are the most CO2-intensive power plant because all other less CO2-intensive power plants already deliver with full capacity. Otherwise you would produce unnecessarily a lot of CO2 to deliver the previously required amount of electrical energy. As long as lignite power plants are still active on the Internet, their CO2 intensity for the limit current context is relevant. Yes, according to the efficiency of these power plants, with a value of 0.9-1.1 kg CO2 per kWh of electrical energy to be expected.""

Prof. Dr. Andreas Drezler from the Technical University of Darmstadt says: "Nobody can know the way to climate neutrality exactly today. Therefore, an open discussion and openness to technology is important. The public discourse can benefit enormously from knowledge from engineering and natural sciences. Because there are ecologically desirable and economically viable technologies for the future." Drezler wrote this together with Prof. Dr. Heinz Pitsch from RWTH Aachen, Prof. Dr. Christof Schulz from the University of Duisburg-Essen and Prof. Dr.-Ing. Johannes Janicka from the Technical University of Darmstadt in a joint position paper under the title "Energy transition: reliable, feasible, open technology".

Federal Audit Office sees the problem of the electrical traffic transition

The arguments of the scientists who reject the theses of the paper directed to the EU are essentially: all of this is not new and long known, instead of the border current, the average view of the emissions is crucial. At some point all electricity production is climate-neutral anyway and with efficient charging control you can control the CO2 load. E-fuel and hydrogen are inefficient and would absorb too much electricity of domestic energy. Of course, these are of course partly valid arguments, which often share the same problem: they relate to hoped -for progress in energy supply in the future. The Federal Audit Office (BRH) has just attested that the German energy transition has significant defects and also addressed the problems of the planned electrical transition turn. The further expansion of renewable energies, the performance of the power grid and the ever higher CO2 taxes could cause consumer prices to continue to increase."The trend is exacerbated by the emerging, further increase in demand for electricity, for example by the hydrogen strategy and the sector coupling, D. H. The inclusion of the sectors in particular warmth and traffic in the energy transition. In addition to a significant increase in market -driven price components", So the Federal Audit Office. And: Risks in the supply of electricity would not be taken into account, the BRH made it clear, for example, with a view to the staggering network expansion. So a "worst-case scenario" is missing about the risk of blackouts. The monitoring of the reliability of the pension is incomplete.

The concept of "greatest possible traffic avoidance"

In fact, the political supporters of e-mobility like to leave people in the unclear about what the implementation of a radical electrical transition is actually meant. The German Environmental Aid (DUH) After all, it becomes clear in its “myth paper Efuel”: “Conclusion:“ The battery -electric drive is by far the best technology for the – after the greatest possible traffic avoidance and – relocation to the environmental association – for reasons of efficiency, for reasons of efficiency and Economic perspective and in terms of real availability and enforcement on the market.""

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“The greatest possible avoidance of traffic” sounds like the sentence from a wah fight program. In one, environmental aid is quite right: With e-mobility you will not be able to replace current private car traffic 1: 1. Environmental aid as one of Germany’s largest (and expressly supported by the SPD, CDU and the Greens and with lavish taxpayers) anti-auto lobby associations, of course, does not want to-the million drivers in the country may already. Only the distribution networks have to play along.Benedikt Kessler, head of network operations at the Energis-Netzgesellschaft mbH in Saarbrucken, said in November 2019 to Site that a 100 percent switch to electromobility was practically inconceivable. Charging many electric cars with a correspondingly low kilowatt performance-3.7 or 7.4 kW-is possible with a corresponding intelligent network control. “But that doesn’t work with a 100 percent turn. I also don’t think that comes that way. I’m more of a realistic electrical share of around 30 percent, ”said Kessler.

"Top smoothing" rationed the current

With reference to the network operator 50 Hertz, the VDI messages report that 50 GW will be shut down by 2030, i.e. power plants that produce electricity when used. Of them, 60 GW are needed. If an additional 14 million electric cars were driving on German roads in 2030, the electricity consumption would be around 10% higher. Federal Minister of Economics Peter Altmaier, who recently expressed his regret, assumes that the law on the “top smoothing” did not get through in this legislapere .

Second letter to the EU Commission demands more energy-realism

The term "Top smoothing" Should drivers, who only get electric cars in the EU in the medium term, be served as new cars. Then Top smoothing is only another word for temporarily parking the wall boxes in the home garages by remote access if too many cars are to be loaded at the same time.The head of the Institute for Energy Systems, Energy Efficiency and Energy Management at the TU Dortmund, Christian Rehtanz, criticizes Koch and his colleagues as "Lobbyist", But it is right to you in one point: the emissions loss on the electric car depend on the electricity mix. To reduce the emissions attributable to the electric car, deer dance suggests a “flexible charging management”. Ultimately, this means: switch off if necessary.

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Patrick Jochem from the German Center for Aerospace Technology also speaks of a reduction in emissions by a “controlled charging process”, that is, the loading is only permitted if there is enough electricity produced from renewable energies. In addition, electric cars could still serve as mobile memory, i.e. feed electricity back into the network in the event of bottlenecks. In other words: Electrical cars may only be loaded if electricity from renewable energies is available and not if the driver needs it. If you drive an electric car in the future, you should think of another investment: a stationary battery that can be used as a reserve canister. It shows how far ahead Tesla boss Elon Musk thinks, because he already has such inpatient energy stores in the program.

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Becomes Germany a Strom import country?

"Today, around 70 percent of German energy needs are imported," says Professor Thomas Willner from the University of Applied Sciences in Hamburg. Of course, this is mainly oil, gas and hard coal, i.e. fossil fuels that emit CO2. If you want to replace them, solar systems and wind turbines must be massively expanded. If even more electricity is added to e-mobility, the idea that it could be operated by 2030 CO2-neutral.Willner has on 17. Also sent an open letter to the EU Commission, which was signed by more than 170 scientists from all over the world. Willner demands regulations from the EU Commission in the formulation of the various regulations. They should be based on the actual CO2 emissions and not on the previous assumptions that take electromobility into account with lower emissions than caused. Willner already performed before the German Bundestag at an expert hearing: “Secondly, electromobility does not bring any new regenerative energy into the system. Instead, it binds renewable potential of the electricity sector in the traffic sector. This potential is then missing elsewhere such as Z. B. in the industry. So we urgently need fresh additional regenerative energy in the traffic sector via alternative fuels.""

E-fuel are discussed as controversially as an e-mobility

By this he means the import of e-fuel produced elsewhere, which uses the sun, the wind or hydropower, which is in abundance. Of course, his statement is also controversial. E-fuel, i.e. fuels with a neutral CO2 balance, ultimately have the same border current problem as e-mobility, If you don’t 100 percent with "green" Electricity. Dirk Uwe Sauer, professor of electrochemical energy conversion and storage system technology from the Rheinisch-Westfalisches Technical University of Aachen, sees the shift in hydrogen and e-fuel production to high-energy countries because electricity production is usually produced there from fossil fuels. "It can be said that the argumentation with regard to CO2 emissions can be followed by battery-electric vehicles. But the argument falls like a boomerang on hydrogen and synthetic fuels, and in full", so sour.The conclusion can be stated: Neither the technology open to the technology for Koch and Willner nor the e-mobility complaints of the "Opposite" Have a patent recipe how to have the politically defined "Climate" can adhere to. That Professor Koch and his colleagues have disclosed a sore point of the emission calculation, which is not simply with the argument "We count on that" can be ironed away, there is no doubt – at least if it is really serious with the real reduction of emissions.Also read:

  • Cell phone, television or washing machine broken? Many Germans then just throw the devices away and buy new ones. It should be different in Thuringia. If you have your broken electric device repaired, you get money for this: up to 100 euros! A brilliant idea?

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16 thoughts on “Controversial climate balance of e-cars: the air burns in the scene of scene”

  1. Top smoothing
    Works wonderfully with controllable consumers, see Z.B. Night storage oven. Since cars … 22 hours a day parking can buffer, even simple socket with a two -tariff meter is enough. Would be too easy and the end customer would participate in the market…

    Reply
  2. Germany does not learn it
    Neither at the energy transition, of which all supporters and a holy cow were convinced and because of whom we now have to buy expensive and dirty nuclear power abroad and have to pay our green electricity again during the day, nor is nor are the mass migration that from supporters As a solution to our demographic problem, the state-commanded e-mobility and the high purchase bonuses, which can mainly be used by rich and company car drivers, was used because the normal citizen is burdened to the borders. Let’s see when everything collapses here and the same people beg foreign countries for help. I hope they are similarly arrogant and let us enjoy the soup alone.

    Reply
  3. In 5-10 years….
    ….one will find: that the climate continues to change. That e-cars are not mass-compatible. That you cannot supply industrial nation without atomic or coal stream. The Grunheide is still not busy. The touch in the car is rather distracting how to help. That the other nations still haven’t panicked. That is on the descending.

    Reply
  4. The e-carts are the result
    of the misconception of having to save the climate and also being able to prevent the heating death of the earth. Every euro is thrown out of money for this wrong path. One day one will regret and realize that it would make more sense to spend this money in favor of preparing for changing climatic conditions protectively.

    Reply
  5. @KOpnick it is probably anything but clever
    to rely on a dangerous lithium battery technology. Researchers from the University of Ulm have scientifically demonstrated the development of dendrites that provide short circuits and battery beach without prior recognizable announcement. That can happen at any time, and it often happens. Uni Ulm: The University of Ulm and the surrounding city of science are considered internationally leaders in battery research.

    Reply
  6. E-car battery recycling!
    Here a well-known advocate of e-mobility tries to represent the problem of e-car battery recycling as solved and to add others as stupid. The recycling of this battery is still in its infancy and is still far from an economic and environmentally friendly process. For example VW, Volkswagen started a battery recycling in Salzgitter. In the new VW pilot plant in Salzgitter, just 3,600 batteries can be processed each year. For comparison: The Volkswagen Group worldwide last year has around 230.000 fully electric cars sold, in 2021 it should be around 800.000 become. The future advisor of God after the next big bang should make himself smart before he assumes other ignorance!

    Reply
  7. Recently a great report
    Seen over the so perfected recycling. One of the biggest problems are not standardized batteries that have to be built manually apart. The recyclers are already looking forward to being able to provide as many staff as in a few years. Just a problem of many. But everything is solved.

    Reply
  8. The electric drive!
    I am really not an opponent of the electric drive, because the electric motor is unbeatable the most efficient drive unit. I am concerned with the battery technology that will become an ecological time bomb and which can be compared to the nuclear waste. Now the well-known e-car disciples will come and the battery as "valuable raw material warehouse" represent in the brightest light. Just make yourself smart what an effort (also energy technology) has to be operated in order to go back to this "valuable raw materials" get. In any case, you cannot recycles with stupid chattering.

    Reply
  9. Mr. KOpnick, the recycling of cell phones is something
    completely different. Not comparable, not just because of the size. The attempted auto battery recycling approaches in Belgium and Germany are very energy hungry and there is a lot of unhealthy manual work. And there is a lot of special waste left. But of course you are right, as always. Only what actually?

    Reply
  10. Manipulations not excluded
    It is, as with so much: something new should be brought onto the market. Only: the market is – not – not – so right -! So the custody e-car builders come up with the idea of negating the Verbenner engine, cwo always you can. At the same time, pseudo-experts and politicians are constricted that the beams crash. And the common people falls on people, like Mr. DudenhOfer, the Greens and many others. Nobody really needs e-cars as a replacement for combustion engines! In terms of environmental balance sheet, these are no better than diesel / petrol engine etc! And sometimes very practical: Whoever wants to run over sidewalks – each in car lengths – are crossed by charging cables. Have fun!

    Reply
  11. Who causes the border current?
    In order to take the absurdity of the border electricity discussion to the extreme: The border current is caused by the production of organic fuels that the scientists propose in their study and not through electromobility;) Incidentally, these fuels do not exist in the required quantity that the study requires to make combustionists more CO2-friendly.

    Reply
  12. CO2
    Perhaps we should remember again that the CO2 share in the air is only 0.041% (approx.20% oxygen u.79% nitrogen).96% of the CO2 produces our planet itself. 4 % of 0.041 % causes people, that is approx. 0.0016 %, of which approx.20 % on emissions from internal combustion engines.Incredible, but true and verifiable .We have to live with natural climate change.

    Reply
  13. A few simple questions:
    Our previous electricity requirement is 40% of wind&Covered sun. Our total energy requirement at about 6-7%. Question: When new electricity consumers are added, in which power plants it is produced? There are no wind & pv.They don’t even create today’s needs. The production of the batteries produces CO2 like a modern diesel over 100.000km +/- over an average of 7 years. Question: It makes sense for the climate to release as much CO2 as a diesel in 7 years within a few weeks?

    Reply
  14. Ecological balance
    Measured is only measured after the engine is started. In one study, a mid -range car diesel/electricity were rated. The electric car has in the manufacturing process 12.729kg CO2 caused, the combustion engine 4.336kg. This "CO2 backpack" of the e-car is in the balance sheet after 16.86 years of operation and a mileage/j. From 15.Broken down 000 km. 1278kg/e and 515kg/combustion engineer are added to recycling…

    Reply
  15. Thank you very much!
    This is a very important note. We didn’t know that e-mobility apostle. Nobody said you so far. She sent us the sky. Nice that you exist.

    Reply

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