Toyota Mirai 2: Is the hydrogen sedan the better electric car?

Driving report: Toyota Mirai 2

The Audi boss doubts this technique: is Toyota’s hydrogen limousine the better electric car?

Toyota Mirai 2: Is the hydrogen sedan the better electric car?-sedan

Harald Dawo
Toyota Mirai II 2021: Beautiful living

  • Site author Stefan Grundhoff

While VW and Audi put everything on the battery, Toyota steadily follows its own electric course – with fuel cell cars that recharge the hydrogen instead of electricity. Site has already driven the second generation of the Toyota Mirai.

For around five years, Toyota presented its first large series vehicle with fuel cell with the Mirai. The fact that the large series produced very manageable volumes was not only due to the sloping design of the five -door. If the Prius was not a beauty, the Mirai caricaked the cranky Prius design again. With the new Mirai, who will celebrate its market premiere at the beginning of next year, everything sees it differently than. Because even if the five -door coupelimousine has a fuel cell drive, the Mirai II first draws attention to itself through its design. Because the 4.98 meter long coupe, with its pleasing proportions and chic lines, is more reminiscent of an Audi A7 or a BMW 8 Series Gran Coupe than the less elegant Prius. It is 6.5 centimeters deeper than the previous model and noteworthy, while the wheelbase grew by 14 centimeters.

Toyota finally makes the hydrogen car chic

“We designed the car because people want to own it because of their performance and appearance. Not alone because it is a FCEV, ”said Yoshiku Tanaka, chief developer of the new Mirai. The former proportions of a bathtub bullet fish, which has pushed too many cookies in the run-up to Christmas, have disappeared and instead the new edition shines with flowing shapes and wheels that have also earned their name. As standard, the four-door run on 19-inch and if you like it a little more sporty, you can even raise 20 inchs at the factory. Toyota recognized the signs of the times and not only added significantly in the new Mirai design. This also applies to the concept, because the Mirai is not only an extremely chic coupe, but now also has its drive on the rear axle.

Long loading times ade: hydrogen sedan in the practical test

Toyota Mirai 2: Is the hydrogen sedan the better electric car?-mirai

CHIP Long loading times ade: hydrogen sedan in the practical test

Under the sheet metal dress there is the new fuel cell generation of the technology -loving Japanese. The three t-shaped tanks are installed in the underbody of the vehicle. One sits in the rear of the cars behind the axis, one in front of it and the third in the wide middle tunnel – together this is 142.2 liters of volume. In this way, an increased tank capacity of 5.6 kilograms of hydrogen could be realized, which increases the range by around 30 percent. Without refueling, the new Mirai now creates up to 650 kilometers.

Toyota Mirai 2: Is the hydrogen sedan the better electric car?-better
Harald Dawo Toyota Mirai II

In contrast to a pure electric car, the nighting is five minutes ended, says project manager Ryotaro Shimizu: “The car is not a zero-emission car, but a minus emission vehicle because the air that comes out of the exhaust is cleaner than the one who sucks it in front.“The whole thing is visualized inside the Mirai II on the central multifunctional screen. Jogger run here behind the vehicle and should show how much good the Mirai did while driving.

174 hp, but two tons of weight

Even if the Japanese now has a rear drive, the room under the front hood cannot be used for luggage. Here are numerous side agents and the fuel cell stack with its 330 cells, which despite ten percent fewer cells has a higher power density of 4.4 instead of 3.1 kWh/l. The engine power has grown to 128 kW / 174 hp compared to the predecessor, but for a car of these dimensions, this weight (1.950 kg) and this design is also unchanged, the performance is manageable. After all, there is a performance lookout of 20 percent and an efficiency gain of ten percent compared to the first -time product. The cold start behavior is no longer a problem. "This now works up to a temperature of -30 degrees Celsius," emphasizes chief developer Yoshiku Tanaka. Instead of the previous NIMH battery, a lithium-ion battery package with 84 cells works in secret, which weighs 44.6 kilograms.

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Toyota Mirai 2: Is the hydrogen sedan the better electric car?-toyota

Site/Wochit Sun power and 700 kilometers range: Luxury Limo Lightyear One in the video

Behind the wheel you can feel little from the fuel cell itself. Geared in and draining briskly works like a normal electric car that presses its energy in a lengthy into the battery package. The drive is correspondingly quiet. Despite extensive insulation measures, you can hear a noise from the front area of the center console, especially at medium speeds, where the hydrogen is converted into electrical energy by an elaborate process. The fact that the processing process for the driver and passengers does not run completely silently is also due to the fact that the Mirai II is otherwise completely quiet. Even at higher speeds, the quiet whest of the wind and the rolling noise of the tires can be heard. Then nothing can be heard from the fuel cell.

At 180 is over, but 650 km range

It’s fun to drive the Toyota Mirai because it is on the street well. He is comfortable and anything but sporty. But the electrical output of 174 hp is sufficient together with the 300 Nm maximum torque in order to put a small intermediate sprint during the overtaking process or to take the left lane on the highway. At the 180 km / h is sealed off. Last but not least, the balanced weight distribution of 50:50 and the basis of the TNGA platform, a stiff body and the newly developed multi-steering suspension at the front and rear ensures the good driving experience. More important than ever the low center of gravity, which makes you mood on quick cornering, even if the steering should give more feedback from the roadway.

Toyota Mirai 2: Is the hydrogen sedan the better electric car?-toyota
Harald Dawo Toyota Mirai II

When it comes to space, the Mirai can primarily shine in front. Here it is so comfortable on the electrical and air -conditioned leather armchairs that you look forward to longer distances to the fuel stop 650 kilometers away. The two displays behind the wheel and in the middle of the dashboard are modern, typical Toyota and always informative. You get used to the operation by touch quickly, even if the information spectrum is initially irritated in the fuel cell representations. It looks a little different in the rear, because even if the Mirai II is now officially operated as a five -door, no three people can sit in the rear if they have outgrown their infancy. And for people from 1.75 meters it will be tight with the headroom anyway. Here the package made of rear -wheel drive and hydrogen tanks are noticeable in the underbody that meet a sloping coupe roof line.

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The question remains of the price. Due to a cost reduction of 20 percent compared to the predecessor, the fully equipped Toyota Mirai would be almost 65.000 euros cost. As a result, the Japanese promise to push quantities into significantly higher dimensions. There are ten times more vehicles than from the previous Mirai, which, however, only went on a small ride in microscopic volumes with a few energy suppliers and public facilities.

Audi does not believe in hydrogen

Incidentally, Toyota is one of the few manufacturers who really believe in the fuel cell in the car. Audi, for example, relies on pure battery cars. According to company boss Markus Duesmann, Audi will almost only produce electric cars and hardly any combustion vehicles in ten years. "I expect us to offer cars with an internal combustion engine beyond 2030, but the proportion will only be very small," said the CEO of the Ingolstadt carmaker of the "Augsburg Allgemeine".Otherwise, Audi will only rely on battery-electric vehicles, since the hydrogen fuel cell will not prevail in the car sector, Duesmann emphasized. "Because the little green hydrogen generated with ecological energy is sensibly not implemented in electricity, but is used for industry, perhaps also for commercial vehicles," added the car manager.

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17 thoughts on “Toyota Mirai 2: Is the hydrogen sedan the better electric car?”

  1. Oh, Mr. Sochgen again!!!
    Well, I take the 30-year guarantee on rusting at Mercedes. It shouldn’t … Give Mercedes on the streets with rust, with this amount of guarantee, but the cars rust anyway because the guarantee is bound to an annual workshop visit to Mercedes. The used car user drives to Z.B. 7/8 years not at the hourly rate of € 130 and more about Mercedes, but to the "Free". Lexus is also very expensive in maintenance, a colleague drives Lexus, and I hardly believe that the used buyers will run there at some point in the future. You can afford one or guarantee case, see Mercedes, the majority of the owners are out of expensive maintenance in old age, so that rust guarantee, goodwill and other long -term guarantees.

    Reply
  2. @Vogel Peter – Oh how typical
    This article is discussing the Toyota Mirai – the Lexus UX300E comes from the same house. Why do you fabulate from the customer -loving guarantee conditions at Mercedes? Whenever the answers and facts do not fit, change the topic. Tiring…

    Reply
  3. @Sochgen
    But Mr. Sochgen, but now it will be violent. Please do not get upset, only harms health. Even for people who don’t understand it right away!!! In 2025 the Mirai3 is said to come, price 40-45000 € puts every Tesla in the pocket! From now on, 30,000 Mirai2 are to be produced. On average 2030-2040 gripping combustion bans, before that the fuel cell vehicle is not required at all to a large extent. There is no competition for the short distance because the fuel cell is not required there. Leave corporations such as Hyundai and Toyota the solution to H2 technology. Please discuss with a little less polemics, you will have already noticed that you belong to the handful of forists with the same problem! They warn??? It’s just ridiculous, real!!!

    Reply
  4. @Vogel Peter – Again Contents – Too Schaden
    And again quote the "Visions" From the marketing paper, but still cannot provide any answers to the many questions and problems. And yes, I warn her. I have secured your collected insults. If you repeat them or add new unsustainable allegations, I will proceed.

    Reply
  5. @Vogel Peter
    I slowly think you have a completely disturbed perception of reality. You say I would "Opinion" spread, I only list the many technical and economic problems of FCEV for cars. On the other hand, they do not respond to any of this argument, quote "Visions" From any marketing brochures, contradict yourself regularly (from "2025", "2030", "in 10-15 years"), Spread demonstrable false statements (profitability of Teslas BEV), regularly insult other forum participants and then throw me disparagement? They are very closely related to criminal acts. I can only warn her!

    Reply
  6. Well, again Mr. Sochgen!!!
    I’ll tell you again!!! I do not spread my own numbers and facts here, but only use data from the Internet. Data published by entrepreneurs themselves, or corresponding medians on the subject of fuel cell. Based on these facts, my positive opinion is based on the fuel cell! You do just make one thing, just question everything, constantly report the efforts of many people, which is already to the limit of the disparagement for many! In contrast to me, people with responsibility do not have the time to respond to their comments. I take the time to present your comments as what you, negative opinion -made against the fuel cell and of course I also make this clearer!

    Reply
  7. @Vogel Peter
    I tell you on facts based arguments why FCEV will not reach a mass market in cars. You have not been able to invalidate one of these arguments. My arguments are not a opinion of opinion, but are based on facts. Enter this, but please not with the Toyota marketing material, but with understandable facts. I keep asking her, but nothing comes !!!

    Reply
  8. Continue to!!!
    You can post comments here ten times a day is your right right, but unless a few battery fans, it will simply be of no interest to anyone you write here! You see, I am the only one here who still answers you, others are no longer worth answering to their eternal repetitions on the subject of fuel cell vehicles. Let yourself come up with something really plausible, which would present to Toyota, Hyundai Undereergie Groups as pointless! But there is no such thing, so only the same lyre from the no comes, cannot, will not, never, never! They just make themselves ridiculous and at some point it is just annoying to listen to me such unqualified omissions, or. to read! Leave it just.

    Reply
  9. @Vogel Peter – "Unqualified omissions"
    Please give a single example of one "unqualified omission" on my part and a factual justification for it? On the other hand, I only read allegations of them and none – really not a single – argument for their thesis. So please be specifically. A free tip: the internet forgets nothing, Mr. Vogel Peter.

    Reply
  10. @Vogel Peter – Master of the Topic Change
    What does the total turnover and profit of Toyota have to do with the topic, whether H2 cars can be produced, sold and used profitably? You once again distract from the actual topic. That is the economic nonsense of FCEV car – today, in 5 years and after 2030. And that’s why there will never be a mass market for FCEV cars. Any excess H2 can be better for other things like Z.B. Use steel production. I’m looking forward to your next topic. You would still like to give no answers to my questions.

    Reply
  11. Mr. Sochgen,
    … The bird, Peter, wrote in his yesterday’s midnight post that no one will answer them apart from him, the bird,. So that the word of the Prophet, according to which a bird is never right, do not even accidentally answer, I answer. What you write about the FCEV (Fool Cell Electric Vehicle) seems more plausible to me than what the bird chirping. The latter is a cabaret tutorous.

    Reply
  12. The number master Sochgen! well then!
    I quote: In the top equipment "Advanced" (73.The new Mirai also has a parking assistant (IPA+), black 20-inch alloy wheels, a panorama roof, head-up display, a digital interior mirror with camera, seat ventilation at the front and rear, three-zone automatic climate automatic as well as a memory function for the driver’s seat and the electrically adjustable steering column. The funding of € 7500 applies to vehicles up to net price of € 65,000, plus 19% VAT, makes € 77350. This allows the Mirai2 to be fully equipped to the third and highest level and still receives funding! What should the whine about the Mirai Sochgen? There is no one who wants to force them to buy the car. They will be happier with less tesla quality!!!

    Reply
  13. @Vogel Peter – further distractions from topic
    We are talking about the use of FC+tank or larger battery stores as the most sensible energy storage for eV. What do any equipment variants have to do with it? What more costs: "Small battery+FC+tank" In FCEV or "Big battery" in the BEV namely TCO – i.e. investment costs + operating costs. Please do not start with gaps and suspension comfort now.

    Reply
  14. @Sochgen and Hutzler!!!
    Please stop throwing with a number of numbers!!! I only take the expected figures from Toyota 2020! Turnover 29.5 trillion yen (250 billion euros) operating result of 2.4 trillion yen (20.39 billion euros), a profit before taxes of 2.63 trillion yen (22.29 billion euros) and a net profit of 2 , 15 trillion yen (18.22 billion euros). Tesla still deserves nothing noteworthy from vehicle sales, but from CO2 certificates. Toyota can afford to subsidize fuel cell vehicles, while the rulers of battery vehicles such as Tesla, would remain on their vehicles without government subsidies. But it is slowly getting fun now when I two "Battery fans" want to give!! Just keep it up!!

    Reply
  15. @Vogel Peter – Ojeoje
    Quote from the Q3-2020 filing by Tesla: Revenues – Total Automotive Revenue: 7.611 billion USD (of which regulatory credits 0.397 billion USD) – Cost of Revenues: Total Automotive Cost of Revenues: 5.506 billion USD makes a profit from the car and sale of 1.708 billion USD in one quarter. And with almost 140,000 deliveries. Toyota only dreams of this margin!

    Reply
  16. @Sochgen
    I only take the facts and numbers again! Tesla has increased the prices by 5000 € overnight at various models. Toyota, on the other hand, lowered the price of the Mirai2 for € 15000, so that it now costs € 63500 and can therefore take € 7500 funding, makes a price of € 56000 for a vehicle with a range of 650km. Tesla dreams of Superakkus with 1000km range, Toyota increased the range by 30%. I quote the ADAC 19.11.2020, Tesla 3 Longe Range 580 WLTP range, with extras and VAT € 67230, therefore already more expensive than a Mirai2 although a class below. I don’t want to talk about the quality differences between the two vehicles. Oh yes, hopelessness embody their opposites for me!

    Reply
  17. @Vogel Peter – You compare end customer prices?
    Toyota has to finance the Mirai (10-20teur), Tesla has a margin of 27+% in Q3, 23% without credits. Likewise, the M3LR for 56 is.To purchase 500 EUR (without a bonus). At 67.230 EUR to order FSDC with. A software feature with 0 EUR border costs (net profit!) Your calculation example is a complete own goal. Answers still failed!

    Reply

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